Talk:Season

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This article is written in American English, which has its own spelling conventions (color, defense, traveled) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.

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Astronomical Reckoning or Triditional Reckoning?

Astronomical seasons should be reckoned by insolation. The seasons should begin at the cross-quarter days in the astronomical view of point. In astronomical view, the Summer Solstice is the "hottest" day of the year. So how can Summer Solstice be the beginning the summer?

Dividing seasons using solstices and equinoxes is just a compromise of meteorological reckoning and days with astronomical meaning. They're just approximate dates, aren't they?

The Seasonal Quarters: Dates of the Solstices and Equinoxes

[|The US Naval Obseravtory publishes "the" national standard data for the dates and times of the solstices and equinoxes. The times given there are in UT (Universal Time -similar to GMT) so they read 5 hours ahead of what clocks are reading in the US's Eastern Standard Time or 4 hours during Eastern Daylight Saving Time. The following values represent the actual/correct dates based on USA time (EST/EDT).

MARCH EQUINOX: usually March 20th; occasionally the 21st; NEVER the 24th or 25th...

JUNE SOLSTICE: usually June 21st; occasionally the 20th...

SEPTEMBER EQUINOX: usually Sept. 23rd; occasionally the 22nd; NEVER (never) the 20th, 21st 24th, 25th...

DECEMBER SOLSTICE: usually Dec. 21st; occasionally the 22nd

So, per the above, the article is incorrect(at 9/11/07 it still was saying "Autumn (90 days) on 21-22 Sept, the autumn equinox"): the Earth NEVER (ever) reaches (USA's) Autumnal Equinox on September 21st. In the US's Eastern Daylight Time zone the Autumnal Equinox usually occurs on September 23rd and occasionally on September 22nd. Therefore I have corrected that line in the main article to say "Sept 22-23" today. earrach9/11/07

Old talk

They are traditional dates, any American dates are recent imports. See for instance Ronald Hutton, The Stations of the Sun, pp140-141: "From this ceremony the feast took its popular British name of Candlemas; it marked the formal opening of spring...", p218: "Finally in both under 'Cetsoman' is the definition 'First May, i.e. the first motion...of summer'..." etc.

Consider also "darling buds of may" in Shakespeare's "summers day": may is hawthorn, but hawthorn blooms are gone by the time of the summer solstice. —Ashley Y 10:11, Apr 19, 2004 (UTC) (also British)

Section merge to reduce temperate zone bias

The former "Traditional" section epitomized this page's heavy bias toward temperate zones by presuming to declare their traditions to be universal. I merged that section with "Official" thereby gathering the three main methods for designation into one section.

The astronomical discussion needs to note that "greatest insolation" occurs twice each year in the tropics as the sun passes directly overhead. This negates the universality of the cross-quarter days, which are meaningless in the tropics.

The page is still rather wordy (excessive discussion of Ellesmere, for example) and contains other temperate biases. For example, wet/dry is basically only given lip service. In fact, if one considers flowering trees, there are numerous seasons in the tropics: mango will bear fruit just before the monsoon starts, rambutan bears early in the monsoon, and mangosteen later in the monsoon. The "Ecological" section really should note this relative aspect of seasonality. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Martindo (talk • contribs)

Chinese definition?

Should we add the Chinese definition of seasons to provide a worldwide view of seasons? In China winter begins when the average temp permanently falls below 10°C, and summer begins when the average temp permanently rises above 22°C. IntegerSequences (talk | contribs) 07:23, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Do you have a source for that? HiLo48 (talk) 07:32, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

https://www.cma.gov.cn/kppd/kppdqxyr/kppdjsqx/201212/t20121208_194908.html IntegerSequences (talk | contribs) 07:54, 9 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@IntegerSequences: Thanks for suggesting this. I've added a paragraph based on that source. —Mx. Granger (talk · contribs) 15:14, 17 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 12 February 2023

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Please correct in the reference named SunModel2 the family name of the 2nd Author: "apple" -> "Shelevytsky" similarly like it presented in the reference named SunModel. Thank you! V.Khavrus (talk) 22:03, 12 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Done small jars tc 16:22, 14 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Science

When does the assigned season start? 112.200.99.238 (talk) 02:45, 7 June 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Modern mid-latitude ecological for the southern hemisphere when?

Annoyingly, the “Modern mid-latitude ecological” section (used mainly by ecologicalists) is NORTHERN HEMISPHERE only, I think there should be smth also with the southern hemisphere aswell, in my opinion. Kaedyn20 (talk) 10:01, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 4 April 2024

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The video of a tree over the course of a year is captioned "Seasonal changes regarding a tree over a year". The seasonal changes aren't 'regarding' the tree, this is a grammatical mistake. The caption should be changed to say "Seasonal changes of a tree over a year" Uselessincarnate (talk) 03:00, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Done by HiLo48. Tollens (talk) 07:17, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 9 September 2024

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Please change the text:

The traditional calendar in China has 4 seasons based on 24 periods known as solar terms.^[1] The four seasons chūn (春), xià (夏), qiū (秋), and dōng (冬)—universally translated as "spring", "summer", "autumn", and "winter"—each center on the respective solstice or equinox. Astronomically, the seasons are said to begin on Lichun (立春, "the start of spring") on about 4 February, Lixia (立夏) on about 6 May, Liqiu (立秋) on about 8 August, and Lidong (立冬) on about 7 November. These dates were not part of the traditional lunar calendar, and moveable holidays such as Chinese New Year and the Mid-Autumn Festival are more closely associated with the seasons. It forms the basis of other such systems in East Asian lunisolar calendars.

to:

The traditional calendar in China has 4 seasons based on 24 periods, twelve of which are called zhōngqi and twelve of which are known as jiéqi.^[2] These periods are collectively known in English as "solar terms" or "solar breaths".^[3] The four seasons chūn (春), xià (夏), qiū (秋), and dōng (冬)—translated as "spring", "summer", "autumn", and "winter"^[4]—each center on the respective solstice or equinox.^[5] Astronomically, the seasons are said to begin on Lichun (立春, "the start of spring") on about 4 February, Lixia (立夏) on about 6 May, Liqiu (立秋) on about 8 August, and Lidong (立冬) on about 8 November. This system forms the basis of other such systems in East Asian lunisolar calendars.^[2]

The Friesian.com source was determined to be unreliable in this discussion, so my suggested text supplies better sources. While singing the Marseillaise (talk) 07:37, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Not done: According to the page's protection level you should be able to edit the page yourself. If you seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. ⸺(Random)staplers 18:04, 9 September 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

^ Ross, Kelley L. "The Solar Terms and the Chinese 60 Year Calendar Cycle". friesian.com. {{cite web}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); Missing or empty |url= (help)
^ ^a ^b Dershowitz, Nachum; Reingold, Edward M. (2008). Calendrical Calculations, Third Edition. Cambridge University Press. p. 248–249.
^ Martzloff, Jean-Claude (2016). Astronomy and Calendars: The Other Chinese Mathematics, 104 BC–AD 1644. Springer-Verlag. p. 63.
^ Li, Wendan (2009). Chinese Writing and Calligraphy. University of Hawaii Press. p. 161.
^ Martzloff, Jean-Claude (2016). Astronomy and Calendars: The Other Chinese Mathematics, 104 BC–AD 1644. Springer-Verlag. p. 64.

[1] Ross, Kelley L. "The Solar Terms and the Chinese 60 Year Calendar Cycle". friesian.com. {{cite web}}: |access-date= requires |url= (help); Missing or empty |url= (help)

[Dershowitz-2] Dershowitz, Nachum; Reingold, Edward M. (2008). Calendrical Calculations, Third Edition. Cambridge University Press. p. 248–249.

[3] Martzloff, Jean-Claude (2016). Astronomy and Calendars: The Other Chinese Mathematics, 104 BC–AD 1644. Springer-Verlag. p. 63.

[4] Li, Wendan (2009). Chinese Writing and Calligraphy. University of Hawaii Press. p. 161.

[5] Martzloff, Jean-Claude (2016). Astronomy and Calendars: The Other Chinese Mathematics, 104 BC–AD 1644. Springer-Verlag. p. 64.

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